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	<title>Comments on: saying more by saying less</title>
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	<link>http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/</link>
	<description>Speak Now</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: kabonfootprint</title>
		<link>http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-1663</link>
		<dc:creator>kabonfootprint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-1663</guid>
		<description>i think that was a good info...
i like it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think that was a good info&#8230;<br />
i like it</p>
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		<title>By: David Grebow</title>
		<link>http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-1353</link>
		<dc:creator>David Grebow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-1353</guid>
		<description>Arguments online will require a newer version of blogging that enables threads where the debaters can join into a virtual circle and go at it ... and a Moderator to keep the train on the track. 

Adding an intelligent comment is useful ... then again most people who get the chance to "be" online take it as part of their 15 Minutes of Fame to talk about themselves, or worse, play The Fool to get attention. 

I suppose one can suffer fools gladly, I personally would moderate them into cyberhell...

One final comment worth note ... if a fool can write like a sage, then it's the readers who suspend disbelief who are the fools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arguments online will require a newer version of blogging that enables threads where the debaters can join into a virtual circle and go at it &#8230; and a Moderator to keep the train on the track. </p>
<p>Adding an intelligent comment is useful &#8230; then again most people who get the chance to &#8220;be&#8221; online take it as part of their 15 Minutes of Fame to talk about themselves, or worse, play The Fool to get attention. </p>
<p>I suppose one can suffer fools gladly, I personally would moderate them into cyberhell&#8230;</p>
<p>One final comment worth note &#8230; if a fool can write like a sage, then it&#8217;s the readers who suspend disbelief who are the fools.</p>
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		<title>By: Chief</title>
		<link>http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator>Chief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 03:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-72</guid>
		<description>Interesting that an article titled "saying more by saying less" spends a dozen paragraphs saying "do not feed the trolls". ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that an article titled &#8220;saying more by saying less&#8221; spends a dozen paragraphs saying &#8220;do not feed the trolls&#8221;. <img src='http://www.slantsixcreative.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Kottom</title>
		<link>http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Kottom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:17:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-40</guid>
		<description>In other words: there's no engaging in rational argument with an irrational idiot.  Sometimes the sharpest condemnation is the sound of crickets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In other words: there&#8217;s no engaging in rational argument with an irrational idiot.  Sometimes the sharpest condemnation is the sound of crickets.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Ross</title>
		<link>http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 12:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-30</guid>
		<description>Do people these days expect this type of conversation to deliver a concensus?

I generally skim them, categorise the responses and decide what I can take away. For this stream, for instance, the three categories I took away from this were 
- "Bravo: dead right!" 
- "Yes, but you can't just let the bad guys win" and
- "You have a duty to probe the apparently foolish ideas to test their merit"

This is of course a subjective process: different groupings may work better for different people.

But if I want the Sure and Certain Truth, I talk to my children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do people these days expect this type of conversation to deliver a concensus?</p>
<p>I generally skim them, categorise the responses and decide what I can take away. For this stream, for instance, the three categories I took away from this were<br />
- &#8220;Bravo: dead right!&#8221;<br />
- &#8220;Yes, but you can&#8217;t just let the bad guys win&#8221; and<br />
- &#8220;You have a duty to probe the apparently foolish ideas to test their merit&#8221;</p>
<p>This is of course a subjective process: different groupings may work better for different people.</p>
<p>But if I want the Sure and Certain Truth, I talk to my children.</p>
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		<title>By: Thursday</title>
		<link>http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Thursday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 21:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-28</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure how or why the "fool" voice should be allowed? Where is the line between, say, fool and spam? Should every nattering voice be heard? If you use the party example, I'm not going to invite a fool to it. If someone causes trouble or derails a conversation at a party, I'm going to ask them to tone it down or leave.

I do agree there's no "winning" an arguement like this one way or another with someone determined to stick to their contrarian views. What troubles me is the idea of leaving an well thought out post, then having some "fool" leave an insulting comment below it. Why give them the "airtime"? 

I'm not sure how this gives me credibility?  

Aside from that, there's the added issue of liability. What if a commenter insults another business or person - could we not be held liable for that? 

This ia good post, that raises interesting questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure how or why the &#8220;fool&#8221; voice should be allowed? Where is the line between, say, fool and spam? Should every nattering voice be heard? If you use the party example, I&#8217;m not going to invite a fool to it. If someone causes trouble or derails a conversation at a party, I&#8217;m going to ask them to tone it down or leave.</p>
<p>I do agree there&#8217;s no &#8220;winning&#8221; an arguement like this one way or another with someone determined to stick to their contrarian views. What troubles me is the idea of leaving an well thought out post, then having some &#8220;fool&#8221; leave an insulting comment below it. Why give them the &#8220;airtime&#8221;? </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure how this gives me credibility?  </p>
<p>Aside from that, there&#8217;s the added issue of liability. What if a commenter insults another business or person - could we not be held liable for that? </p>
<p>This ia good post, that raises interesting questions.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-27</guid>
		<description>Healthy debate creates a meaningful conversation.  Those that have good points and genuinely add to the conversation therefore by definition cannot be "fools".  Disgruntled or bitter fools who take joy in personal attacks do not contribute anything other than self satisfaction in bringing others down.  In my experience, they usually miss the point, focussing on something trivial and off subject, which in turn takes the conversation in a completely wrong direction.

Correcting potential fools once to try and get the conversation back on track will usually clear up a miscommunication or validate their "foolishness".  Those that are deliberately looking to throw a wrench in with no other reason than to cause trouble will continue to do so!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Healthy debate creates a meaningful conversation.  Those that have good points and genuinely add to the conversation therefore by definition cannot be &#8220;fools&#8221;.  Disgruntled or bitter fools who take joy in personal attacks do not contribute anything other than self satisfaction in bringing others down.  In my experience, they usually miss the point, focussing on something trivial and off subject, which in turn takes the conversation in a completely wrong direction.</p>
<p>Correcting potential fools once to try and get the conversation back on track will usually clear up a miscommunication or validate their &#8220;foolishness&#8221;.  Those that are deliberately looking to throw a wrench in with no other reason than to cause trouble will continue to do so!</p>
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		<title>By: neal</title>
		<link>http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator>neal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-26</guid>
		<description>@ Mike and Zen:

It's a good point. I would never argue that we should ignore dissenting voices, nor would I argue that we shouldn't have a healthy debate. When I speak of "the fool" I'm speaking of that person whose only goal is to draw attention to himself and derail the conversation. It happens again and again, and I've spent more time than I care to admit trying to debate and/or engage those folks. The truth is that they don't want the debate, they only want the attention and the controversy. The best way to deal with those people is to give them the space to speak and let them have the last word. The important issues -- the issues you're hinting at -- will ultimately be worked out elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Mike and Zen:</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a good point. I would never argue that we should ignore dissenting voices, nor would I argue that we shouldn&#8217;t have a healthy debate. When I speak of &#8220;the fool&#8221; I&#8217;m speaking of that person whose only goal is to draw attention to himself and derail the conversation. It happens again and again, and I&#8217;ve spent more time than I care to admit trying to debate and/or engage those folks. The truth is that they don&#8217;t want the debate, they only want the attention and the controversy. The best way to deal with those people is to give them the space to speak and let them have the last word. The important issues &#8212; the issues you&#8217;re hinting at &#8212; will ultimately be worked out elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: neal</title>
		<link>http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>neal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:54:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-25</guid>
		<description>MaggieW, thanks for pointing that out. I'm fixing the mistake but no way am I deleting your comment. You're right, after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MaggieW, thanks for pointing that out. I&#8217;m fixing the mistake but no way am I deleting your comment. You&#8217;re right, after all.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slantsixcreative.com/2007/12/04/saying-more-by-saying-less/#comment-24</guid>
		<description>-What about when speaking up is a moral issue?

-How can one move on if the point of discussion is to come to a conclusion about an action?

Foolish ideas need to be challenged in the open.
Zen Faulkes mentioned above that "errors left unchallenged gain the perception of truth." On the other hand, many seemingly foolish ideas in the short term turn out to be game-changing in the long run.

Ignoring the fool brings to mind children sticking fingers in their ears. Maybe its ok to ignore the fool if the subject matter didn't matter to begin with. If the communication never mattered, then you were probably talking with yourself all along.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>-What about when speaking up is a moral issue?</p>
<p>-How can one move on if the point of discussion is to come to a conclusion about an action?</p>
<p>Foolish ideas need to be challenged in the open.<br />
Zen Faulkes mentioned above that &#8220;errors left unchallenged gain the perception of truth.&#8221; On the other hand, many seemingly foolish ideas in the short term turn out to be game-changing in the long run.</p>
<p>Ignoring the fool brings to mind children sticking fingers in their ears. Maybe its ok to ignore the fool if the subject matter didn&#8217;t matter to begin with. If the communication never mattered, then you were probably talking with yourself all along.</p>
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